Our recent Big Interview with Declan Schubert attracted a lot of attention, so we continued the conversation from an employer’s perspective with Morphum Environmental People and Culture Lead Yuliya Schamrel. What does an inclusive workplace look and feel like? It’s easy to say you’re inclusive, but do your actions really support this?
Morphum Environmental changed their interview process after Declan Schubert, an autistic candidate and now permanent employee, called Yuliya prior to the interview to say he was autistic and uncertain about the set up.
Morphum openly encourages its employees to share any neurodivergences so that it can make the workplace better for them. This willingness to accommodate where possible has created an environment in which Declan feels at home and other employees are comfortable talking about neurodiversity and sharing their own diagnoses.
We asked Yuliya about the company’s inclusive practices, the benefits to all employees, and for advice about how other organisations can step up.
DECLAN PRAISED THE EASE WITH WHICH HE COULD CONTACT YOU AS HE’D PREVIOUSLY STRUGGLED TO SPEAK WITH POTENTIAL COMPANIES.
“We are a medium-sized organisation so this may have helped, and I was also doing the recruitment – it wasn’t outsourced or automated – so he could speak with me directly. It’s valuable to know that he found it easy to contact us even though it wasn’t by design.”
YOU CHANGED THE INTERVIEW PROCESS AFTER DECLAN CALLED TO LET YOU KNOW HE WAS AUTISTIC AND THAT THE SET UP MIGHT NOT WORK FOR HIM. WAS IT EASY TO MAKE CHANGES?
“Yes, I didn’t need to consult anyone or seek approval. I think it’s worth companies having guidelines in place that allow those overseeing the recruitment to change the processes if required.
“It was great that Declan called me before the interview and disclosed his autism. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have known and would have proceeded with the panel interview that may not have suited anybody and Declan may not have started with us as an intern.
“In response to Declan’s call, we changed the process to a speed dating format. Every candidate had a ten-minute one-on-one conversation with each of the five team leaders, who had a different question.
“I also gave the candidates the five questions upon their arrival, and they had ten minutes to prepare before starting the rotation.”
DID THE AMENDED INTERVIEW PROCESS SUIT EVERYONE – THE CANDIDATES AND INTERVIEWERS?
“Every candidate benefited from not being surprised. For example, people who weren’t necessarily comfortable in a group were not disadvantaged, we didn’t hear the loudest voice in the room, and everyone had their own one-on-one conversation with each team leader.
“The interviewers also really enjoyed the process and found it easier to compare the candidates because they rated them against the same question, rather than a panel interview where each candidate may answer different questions.
“So, moving forward, we will use this new approach for our internship intakes. This is a change Declan brought in before he even started with us.
DID YOU TELL THE TEAM LEADERS DECLAN WAS AUTISTIC BEFORE THE INTERVIEW?
“No, I didn’t and all of them picked him as the top candidate in that cohort because he was more mature and experienced, and responded very well to some engineering questions.
“Once our directors’ learned Declan was autistic, they wanted to know how they could make Morphum a welcoming place for him. So, we asked Bronwyn Barnett from Autism New Zealand, who was working with Declan to support him prepare for the workplace, to join one of our weekly leadership meetings to elevate our understanding. She spoke to us about autism, how it might show up in people, and gave us insights about Declan.”
HAS MORPHUM’S WORKPLACE ENVIRONMENT CHANGED SINCE DECLAN’S ARRIVAL?
“Declan shared his experience of being autistic during our neurodiversity week. He spoke about his autism, what it means, and shared a cool article describing the seven aspects of autism spectrum and how it’s diagnosed. It was great because this came from him. He also told us how he really felt welcome at Morphum.
“Following this, people started talking more about neurodiversity, and leaders and other staff have announced their diagnoses – a sign that people are feeling more comfortable to share.
“Life can be hard for an autistic person. Seemingly simple things such as having a coffee break in the work kitchen can be fraught – wondering whether to speak to others who may be present. The amount of constant thinking for someone like Declan is so much more intense than many of us would experience or understand.
“Declan didn’t hide his autism when he started with us, but he didn’t want to announce it either. He gave me permission to disclose it to those he was working with and, by being forthcoming and approaching me to socialise his thinking and ask for advice and directions, we were aware of his condition and could therefore understand him and his actions better.
“Knowing this was great because I could advise him that he didn’t have to pretend or mask anything – he could just be himself.”
IT’S EASY TO TICK A BOX SAYING YOUR WORKPLACE IS INCLUSIVE, BUT THIS IS NOT ALWAYS THE REALITY. WHAT DOES INCLUSIVITY MEAN TO YOU?
“I think you can only really be inclusive if you have a representative of a group that you want to include. You can say you’re inclusive but, without any representation, it’s hard to believe. My biggest reflection was that no amount of information sharing or saying the right words will equal a feeling of inclusion.
“Inclusivity is a work in progress. We’re not perfect and we’re probably still going to make some mistakes, especially because consultancy is fast-paced and involves many different tasks that happen in parallel.”
HOW WOULD YOU ENCOURAGE WORKPLACES TO DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY’RE INCLUSIVE?
“We try and we do get it wrong, but it really helps when an individual who represents a particular diversity is open and forthcoming and provides feedback. We made it clear to Declan that he could do this, and it helped us a lot.
“The biggest obstacle for us would have been if Declan had not shared his autism with us. Something we do once we’ve hired a candidate, but before they start, is ask them for basic information, and, at the bottom of the form, we say:
“It’s estimated that 60% of neurodivergent individuals don’t disclose their neurodivergence to their employer, which means they can’t accommodate them. We really hope you’ll tell us if you have a neurodivergence before you start with us so we can make our workplace better for you.”
“We do this when they’re already safe, they have the job, but before they start. This gives us the space to prepare if they disclose that they are neurodivergent. Preparation usually involves having great information and leaders knowing what to do.
“Once Declan shared his autism with us, the worst thing we could have done as an organisation was to do nothing. Then there would have been no reward for speaking out. Yes, the change was led by Declan, but we made adjustments where possible.
“The directors’ keenness to understand Declan’s autism and initiating Bronwyn’s visit, as well as genuinely educating themselves about neurodivergences, also sent a message of safety to all employees that they can be a leader in this company and a neurodivergent individual.
“Obstacles still exist in the workplace because we can’t fix everything, and issues still arise in the work itself because we can’t troubleshoot all the variables. But there’s trust that we will make adjustments if we can, and an awareness that even though we can’t always accommodate, this doesn’t make us less inclusive.”
